I've made more friends more easily in my 40s than any other time in my life, and I'm a relatively quiet and disagreeable person.
Making connections with people you're around frequently is easy. The problem is that adult life doesn't throw you into those situations post-college outside of work.
Now it's on you. Find a group. Sports are the easiest. You will absolutely make strong, long lasting friendships if you play sports. It doesn't matter if you're athletic or talented.
You just gotta show up and see the same people every week over and over. If you're a reasonably well adjusted person (and even that sometimes doesn't matter) you will make friends.
Again, making connections and friends is easy. Being around the same people regularly is difficult. Solve that problem and the friendships will come with little effort.
I have found that people generally understand the value of friendship and are welcoming to newcomers. It's been a very refreshing surprise as I've gotten older.
A lot of people will simply not do this, even if they know they should.
For this reason I think WFH is a massively more risky social experiment than most realize. It works for folks who were either already inclined to "go out and do things" or those who already had established social groups. We will see how this pans out in a generation or two.
Having to have everything scheduled weeks in advance is utterly exhausting and incredibly anxiety inducing to me. If I didn't already have friends I could do spontaneous things with, I'm not sure how I'd be able to have any sort of social life at all. I certainly am not alone in this, even if I'm a minority.
>For this reason I think WFH is a massively more risky social experiment than most realize.
I think it's the opposite. The standard where people commute to the office, spend all day in the workplace, and commute home with barely enough time to tend to their needs is the failed social experiment, creating unprecedented levels of isolation and entire generations of people who can't form relations outside of work.
I also don't think it's all that healthy for people's primary avenue for building friendships being in a venue where layoffs and transfers could disrupt that process suddenly and without any real recourse.
One thing the marketing of industrialization (I want to say propaganda, but I know how people are...) was quite successful at was in erasing memory of the period just before, when piece-work at home (and farming, lots of farming) was the primary form productive labor took. There is quite a lot of documentation of industrial bosses complaining about such set-ups because they allowed workers to set their own hours and modulate their output to their needs (excuse me, "be lazy").
> Having to have everything scheduled weeks in advance
I don't see how WFH makes this worse, in fact it probably makes it better (less time spent commuting, more ability to end the day early with a flexible employer, etc)
Maybe it was pandemic, maybe it was all that free time, but suddenly we all noticed each other. I had never even spoken to some of these people before.
Suddenly we were all spending time in the same place instead of waving as we drove by on our way to work and taking kids to activities.
Now I have friends. I don’t go to work then come home and stay inside.
Plus working from home I have time to get involved in some of the kid’s activities and made more friends.
Not necessarily during the week, but I have more energy and time for it on the weekends, thanks to not commuting. Do some cleaning during the week so there's not so much that needs to be done on the weekend.
I don’t think they are in the majority, but it doesn’t have to be typical social activities like sports. I spend time WFH dropping and picking up my 3yo from pre school. In doing so I meet a number of parents from the community.
That overwhelming majority of people I know that have been doing WFH on and off for a decade work regular hours and spend the remainder (time otherwise commuting) socialising (outside the house), sports, gardening, building projects, etc.
IRL AFK at least - the 24/7 gamers and shutin's likely have a different world view, but they appear to be in a minoity albeit one perhaps growing.
> Having to have everything scheduled weeks in advance is utterly exhausting and incredibly anxiety inducing to me. If I didn't already have friends I could do spontaneous things with, I'm not sure how I'd be able to have any sort of social life at all. I certainly am not alone in this, even if I'm a minority.
I feel similarly, but I don't understand how working at the office solves this problem. Are you saying that you mostly socialize by spontaneously going out after work with coworkers? Or that your you and your friends work in the same general vicinity, so you can text them near the end of the workday, and spontaneously go do something together?
Same here, I guess because I'm such a nerd, I have more affinities with like minded people that I often met at studies and at work.
Other connections are fine but I'm not sharing the same dark humor and geek vibes with them.
With WFH I still go to the office everyday and the people who I only see once a week seem too distant to me and we dont know each other very well.
I do WFH for about 9 months now and i’m not a big fan of it in general (for myself). I can’t go back in the office because i moved too far away, and would have to find a new job to work in an office (quite ironic, isn’t it?).
There are some pros, like i eat a lot healthier, sleep a lot better, save a lot of money on gas. But two days without leaving the house is not uncommon, because I don’t have to and since i don’t know anybody around here and don’t do any team sports I haven’t made any friendships or contacts in any way.
I really liked being in the office and have the ability to talk to people which share your interests (which is just my work currently)
> share your interests (which is just my work currently)
That’s the part I’d work on fixing. Friendships generally start based on shared interests, and you definitely need something in your life other than work.
Over my life, I have made plenty of friends both at work and outside of work — but NONE of them had no interests outside of work.
That's not to say that I've never had coworkers whose only interest was work. I just didn't become friends with them, because what is there to talk about? I greeted them and made basic small talk with them while we worked together, but that's not friendship.
And that's not to say that my friends' interests have nothing to do with the work they do. But their interests in those areas go above and beyond what they are paid to do.
I solved that joining a coworking space. It changed my life, made a lot of friends since we see each other everyday. We have coffee/lunch chats which lead to friendships.
The great thing about it is you get to choose the space so it can fit what you're looking for (quiet, programmer heavy, artsy, walking distance, with a cafeteria, next to the gym, etc), you also don't have the pressure of them being colleagues so your relationship can be about other things (sports, games, music, pottery, going out)
The WeWork I go to does a run club every week and while there are only 3 or so people (other than myself) who are consistent, it’s been good to have a new group of people in my life.
Wish my area wasn't so much of a dead space for coworking spaces. There's a couple but they are both a half hour away. I almost might as well commute the rest of the way to my actual job at that point.
Isn’t factory and office work the social experiment? Just a couple centuries ago most work was done at home, or out on the farm, with only the owner/tenant and his family around. WFH is somewhat of a reversion to the historical mean.
If we are going all “risky social experiment”, one could argue that almost all of humanity worked from home/neighborhood until passenger rail showed up in the mid 19th Century, and thus the actual anomalous human situation/experiment has been the last 150 years of commuting to work from home. A time of two World Wars and many major bloody military conflicts, breakdown of the family, weakening of community, growth and spread of colonialism, etc.. Perhaps Africa could have been spared the blessing of European colonialism if Nigel, Jacque, Fritz etc. had stayed at home making shoes. (Or maybe not.)
Humans and associated social institutions evolved out of a WFH culture for hundreds of years, and perhaps those time-proven institutions would work better in 2024 if we returned to a WFH culture. Commuting culture may have been the “massive risky social experiment” of the last Century.
I find trying to socialize and make friends in an office situation to be incredibly stressful. Everyone in an office is there to primarily make money, and the politics implied make it hard for me to let my guard down and meaningfully connect with anyone.
I greatly prefer socializing with people over hobbies -- everyone is at the gathering willingly to enjoy a hobby, which means I have something in common with everyone participating.
Far superior, but then... I like having a groove and knowing when my next social gathering will be. I like routines. It sounds like you don't, which I can sympathize with, and I'm glad you have friends to spontaneously hang out with and hope you get to expand your circle and enjoy your life.
> For this reason I think WFH is a massively more risky social experiment than most realize. It works for folks who were either already inclined to "go out and do things" or those who already had established social groups. We will see how this pans out in a generation or two.
I wonder if this would vary by country and culture?
I wonder if there is a statistically noticeable difference in experience between places like the US and Northern Europe that seem to be more more work-focused compared to Southern European countries like Spain and Italy which have a reputation for having a better work/life balance.
>countries like Spain and Italy which have a reputation for having a better work/life balance
Where is this reputation coming from? Every single engineer from Greece and Italy and some from France I met complained about long working hours being the norm and a cultural issue there. If he left the office before 4PM the boss would ask him "are you only having a half day today?" with the expectation being workday is at least till 6pm.
I feel like this is some overly romanticized picture coming from Americans or rich northern europeans who think people in southern Europe are lazy and chilling all day instead of working their butts off, because that's what they saw in movies or on their holidays there.
It's actually the opposite. Workers in work focused but rich countries with strong economies have better WLB than workers in laid back countries but with struggling/stagnating economies.
> I feel like this is some overly romanticized picture coming from Americans or rich northern europeans who think people in southern Europe are lazy and chilling all day instead of working their butts off
I understand what you mean, but didn't mean to come at it from that angle necessarily. Less work isn't the only way to have a different work/life balance.
I was thinking more about things to do outside of work that are more part of the culture, things like tapas and spending time at cafes and town squares, i.e. people typically socializing more outside of work.
For example, I assume someone who enjoys the third place feel of an iconic UK pub would have an easier time fending off work from home cabin fever than someone who lives in a suburb bereft of such places. I wondered if, statistically, people in some cultures had an easier time working from home due to reasons like this.
>I was thinking more about things to do outside of work
You still need jobs and money for those. They aren't free. And tapas can be had all over the world. You don't need to live in Spain to enjoy Spanish food.
People in Spain wouldn't be leaving the sun, beaches and tapas to go work in depressing Germany, UK, NL or Sweden for no reason.
The economy of many poor African and Asian countries is also growing, that doesn't mean the economy is stellar and that WLB is amazing.
Also, GDP growth is a shit measurements of WLB and general welfare of the working population.
For example, if a lot of rich foreigners, tourists and retirees are buying properties and spending money on Airbnbs in your sunny country lifting up the GDP that has no impact on the welfare and WLB of white collar workers working in software or hardware engineering for example.
Which is how Spain still has one of the highest youth unemployment rares in the EU.
But yeah, Spain is a bit better, but Italy WLB is definitely nothing to write him about according to Italians who emigrated.
I see your point. The original claim I have issue with is
> Workers in work focused but rich countries with strong economies have better WLB than workers in laid back countries but with struggling/stagnating economies.
There is no official definition of "laid back country", but I assume Germany would fit your "rich countries with strong economies". I am also assuming that Spain (the south of EU) fits your "laid back countries but with struggling/stagnating economies".
The problem with that mental model is that right now Germany's economy is struggling and Spain's economy is getting stronger.
My point is this dichotomy does not match reality. The prejudice is thinking that Spain and Italy are "laid back" and that their economy is struggling, while Germany is somehow "not laid back" and their economy is strong. At the moment, this model (at least in Europe) is more based on ideas of 2010 or so that in reality.
There is also the assumption that WLB is better in Germany, which is very debatable. If that is the case, what does it mean to be a "laid back country"? Does it mean good WLB, or does it mean lazy? To me, in addition to the countries not being in the assumed situation, the mental model contradicts itself there (bad WLB+laid back vs good WLB+ not laid back).
> It's just what the people who emigrate out are saying. It's not prejudice.
I am one of those people myself. I do not mean bad by it, and I am not implying you are a bad person or anything like that. It just does not match the current reality of these countries IMO. It fits more a stereotype of 2010-2020.
I WFH since pandemic. I have it good with current company and my home setup is a blast.
But next year resolution is that I will be renting a desk in a coworking space.
While I don’t have problem as I have enough fiends and family to hang out with.
I believe that I leave business opportunities lying somewhere there on the table and if current contract ends I will be on much worse bargaining position than when I will having more business connections hopefully created by sharing co work space.
> A lot of people will simply not do this, even if they know they should.
This cannot be understated. When you consider the number of singles and young couples out there, it's pretty astounding how difficult it is to meet them in an organic manner. I totally agree with the person you were replying to, in the sense that people can get out there and just start meeting others, but it's still a tremendous investment of time and effort when the vast majority of other friendship-seeking individuals out there aren't investing anything close to that level of effort. I know because I've pretty much figured out how to just talk to people I meet in public, but it's still exhausting when your desire is to meet people who can be longer term friends or even romantic partners.
What makes things even more difficult is the limited number of venues where it's feasible or appropriate for people to meet each other. I recently considered joining a church in order to expand my social circle (and yes, as well as open myself up to spiritual experiences) but, frankly, church crowds today resemble senior groups. I love talking to elderly folks, but it can be difficult to relate to them on a close friendship level. I find this to also be true of other ways to form social circles, to a somewhat lesser extent. Many meetup groups are full of the 50+ crowd, and surprisingly devoid of the 20s through 40s crowd. I think the older generations are just better at getting out there regularly; young people tend to show up to a single event (and even paid classes!) and never return. I can't entirely blame them, but it's also a chicken-or-the-egg problem. Everyone complains about being lonely, but then they don't get out there and return to the same venues so they can see the same people repeatedly.
There's a lot of busy people, but I've met enough people who really aren't that busy that I think business is too often used as an excuse to not leave one's comfort zone. It's so easy to stay in the comfort of one's home that I think that's what many people resort to doing. Netflix, Reddit, Doordash, Amazon, Hinge, and Pornhub in combination are much too immediately satiating.
The are many options such as:
- Going to pubs and striking up conversations at the bar
- Meetup groups
- Volunteering
- Going to places like museums and striking up conversations
- Singles mixers
- Bar trivia nights
- Taking classes
And far too few people do them consistently, if at all.
I think many people have anxiety from a type of cognitive dissonance in this area.
They don't want to make friends, they want someone else to want to be their friend so they know they are liked in the real world. That is what is missing, not the actual experience of friendship. Even if someone asked them to be their friend, many would say no because it would take time away from what is really important to them. Netflix, Reddit, Doordash, Amazon, Hinge, and Pornhub.
How do I know this? Because it exactly describes myself.
Being a hikikomori also precludes immediate family members including parents, spouse, etc.; you often don't even leave your room let alone your house/apartment.
Hikikomori is a level or two beyond what most westerners would think of when imagining an extremely introverted or reclusive person. The condition is more akin to PTSD stemming from severe mental/social trauma.
For further context, the etymology of hikikomori is to "hiku" (literally "pull", contextually in this case to "pull back" from daily life) and "komoru" (to "shelter up", in this case most likely sheltering in your bedroom or mancave or similar safe space).
I completely disagree, and think work from home (which most of our ancestors did until the industrial revolution) is infinitely better for making and sustaining healthy friendships. There's not 90-120 minutes of commute time sitting alone in a car. There's not the very common occurrences of layoffs and promotions making you directly competing with each other. Instead you've got all that extra time to just spend time with your neighbors and make friendships.
You can choose to work from a co-working space, coffeeshops, libraries, or just stay at home. But instead of getting home exhausted at 6-7pm needing to cook, clean, chores, etc, you can get that stuff done during your lunch break and then pop around to a friend's house by 5:05pm.
It's so much better I can't imagine going back to an office where I'm sitting alone and sad in a cube all day trying to focus while people yammer on the phone right next to me.
Aware that this is not how everyone feels but, IMO: you'd really have to mis-design your life to have a 90-120 minute commute. It's almost always possible to live near where you work, and it's a lot more important than most other comforts.
When you’re married with a working spouse, it becomes much harder.
Then when you have kids you need to think about where they go to school and you might want to live close enough to grandparents that they can help out. These constraints make living close to work impossible for a huge chunk of people.
On the German city I live on, 1h is the bare minimum comute time, to cross across three districts with public transports, and better not lose those connections.
Closer to work, would be great, if I could afford the shinny prices of the rentals on the district the office is located on.
Which would be the complete opposite from districts where other family members work on.
Being an extroverted libertarian, I sort of struggle with this topic. What are we supposed to do with people who can’t take care of their own mental health? Force them? Wait until they become a burden on the rest of us?
> For this reason I think WFH is a massively more risky social experiment than most realize. It works for folks who were either already inclined to "go out and do things" or those who already had established social groups. We will see how this pans out in a generation or two.
I work as a remote software dev. Joining a volleyball league + run club definitely helped massively for me.
> Again, making connections and friends is easy. Being around the same people regularly is difficult.
Agreed, 90% of the difficulty making new friends is showing at the same place/event regularly. Remaining 10% is actually being someone people want to be friends with.
Depends on the sport. I used to play pickup basketball. Whereas I recognized the players week to week, I never knew any of them. I only accidentally ran into one of them outside the game once. BTW, I loved the game and remember the players well. They just weren't friends.
Then I sailed, crewed raceboats. I got to know many people quite well. There's a lot of social coordination and communication in sailing. Just sitting on the rail on an upwind beat is a conversation, the same conversation every time but like chicken soup for the soul. Also a good crew is lot like a startup. Not easy to break into but worth it.
I agree, sailing is a particularly good sport for making friends… however it tends to be mostly older people. I just decided to make friends with people my parents age, and I’ve made a lot of good friends that way regardless.
You are aware, that you are on a board of grinding workaholics, who work hard to have nobody escape the gulag of modern labor - by forcing everyone to grind their lifes to dust to compete with them?
That the processes we are part of have one purpose and one purpose only when it comes to social life, to force everyone to invest there whole social life into a company ? That half the apps written here, are to divide and conquer society and use the created misery and loneliness for additional upsales of the withheld happiness? That companies are actively antagonistic to anybody having friends and friendships?
That's a very big generalisation. While people here will tend to be in tech we all come from different places, have different experiences and work in vastly different things
> You are aware, that you are on a board of grinding workaholics, who work hard to have nobody escape the gulag of modern labor - by forcing everyone to grind their lifes to dust to compete with them?
As Pat Paulsen might have said, "Picky, picky, picky." Threads about social disconnection come up pretty often on the front page for all that. I don't think the people being ground into dust (and I agree with you that there are an increasing number of them) are on HN. People posting here seem to have the financial wherewithal to break the bonds of work at least occasionally and often more than that.
Yes, modern capitalist society is really great at making human needs scarce (friends, relationships) and human wants abundant (junk food, video games).
But I don't think there's really a point in stewing too much about the society we live in, it's easier to accept that this is our reality, and that we have to work extra hard for the things in life that matter. Giving up only creates a much worse situation for yourself.
People back in the day had to do extremely difficult manual labor all day long, think of it as though the "extremely difficult labor" has changed into social labor - from making friends to dating to maintaining relationships.
And you know you don't have to be a workaholic, right? I work 9-5, I have time for other things in life. I have a few friends at the office but I'm not thinking "work is life" ever.
My problem is that I don't want to play sports or doing a running club or any thing like that. And it isn't that I'm not willing to put in some work, it's that I want to make friends who want to do _other things_. I'm not sure how to find good public groups for people like me with the intent of finding friends for less public interests like video games, board games, books, etc.
For games stuff, you can go to game stores and competitions. There are book clubs too. The trouble with a lot of these things is that most people don't actually want to make friends who are all about either of those things. They want to make demographically matched friends that are willing to do more than one thing. If your game group is a bunch of 18 year old dorky dudes, and you're in your 30s, you are likely to feel out of place. If you're single and want to date out of your friend group, you might have to broaden your horizons to include stuff that the opposite sex tends to like. You won't be welcome in many of those contexts either.
> They want to make demographically matched friends that are willing to do more than one thing. If your game group is a bunch of 18 year old dorky dudes, and you're in your 30s, you are likely to feel out of place.
Sure, but why is it a given that the game group is all the same age? The groups I'm in vary from somewhere below the drinking age (never asked), to people in their 60s and above.
Now, granted, I'm 40 - I'm more likely to build a long-term friendship with the older folks than the 20 year olds - but so far, everyone seems to be getting along fairly well, and I've had these people over at my house.
Board games tend to attract young people. I know there can be a few oddballs who make the group technically appear to range from 12 to 80 or something, and like one or two girls who make it technically have women there. But if 90% of the group is 12-25 year old boys and young men, this seems like an inefficient way to meet people you can really hang with as an older guy, and also an extremely inefficient way to get dates. As long as you enjoy it and know what you're getting into I guess it's fine. Sometimes being the old man with a few extra resources can be beneficial. But I'm not looking for more work than I already have.
I guess I haven't gone to too many boardgame meetups, but D&D seems to have a pretty decent age spread to me; in fact, it tends to lean older than younger.
I have no comment on the dating aspect; I'm monogamously married, and have no particular opinion on the matter, though I will say that D&D leans so heavily male, I can count the number of women I've played with in the past six months on two hands without needing fingers. It's a problem in the hobby. :/
> I'm not sure how to find good public groups for people like me with the intent of finding friends for less public interests like video games, board games, books, etc.
I've found a local group of friends by posting that I want to start a D&D campaign - I did this both online, and by literally putting up posters. Later, I joined a discord with the same intent.
I've run one campaign with some local friends, and am in two others with other people. We see each other at least once every two weeks.
I’ve been cognizant of this for several years now, but almost immediately after I began to act on it, the pandemic hit and threw it all into disarray.
Since then I’ve moved which has enabled a massive CoL reduction which is great, but at the same time I’m not sure this is where I want to be for even the next 5-10 years and so I’ve been resistant to putting down roots. Needing to drive to do anything also doesn’t help, as I find driving on anything but practically empty roads unpleasant.
There may be a pedestrian/cyclist-friendly city with great public transportation in my future, and so if I make a point to go out and do things consistently it’ll probably be there.
Question about this. My partner is similar -- if we aren't going to be somewhere "forever" they are hesitant to do any "work" to socialize etc. because "we are leaving soon". In what ways do you perceive "putting down roots" as somehow unappealing if you don't know how long you'll be there?
(I almost said "how long you'll be around" -- but none of us know that, so really the question is even more pointed!)
Mostly, it boils down to how I’ve traditionally been terrible at maintaining connections to people who aren’t in my immediate vicinity (and conversely, most people I’ve met have also not been great at this). I can count the number of post-move non-immediate-family that I either stay connected to or don’t need to stay constantly connected to because picking up where we left off years ago is effortless on a single hand. It feels bad to make a bunch of friends that I probably won’t be able to keep if I move.
Other than that, if it’s likely that I’ll want/need to move some time in the near-ish future, it doesn’t make sense to build a situation that would make that future move more difficult (emotionally or otherwise) than it needs to be. Having a sizable social circle established prior to moving introduces room for messy hesitance and regret.
Agreed. I built a big friend group in a short time in my city just by going to the same club every weekend.
There’s a second part to this though. You have to put in some effort to break people out of “club friend” into “real life friend.” Make plans and invite them.
I agree with this completely. My issue with sport clubs was that as an adult I felt I joined too late. They all were already friends for some time, and although not impossible, it's harder to fit in.
I don’t think it matters that it’s sports specifically, but I agree that the secret ingredient is showing up and putting in the effort consistently and frequently. It’s easier to do that when friendship is a byproduct of something you are interested in or need to do.
Another factor that is important is being open-minded, whether that means being a little more willing to explore things that aren’t your wheelhouse or being tolerant of behaviors or lines of thinking that aren’t natural to you. That doesn’t mean you need to pretend to be someone you loathe or surround yourself with insufferable people, but instead find a way to deal with averse concepts in a constructive way, to be just flexible enough to find an enjoyable common ground. Walk away if there isn’t any, or it isn’t worth the effort you have to put in.
I think too many people think friendship is what happens between people that are the same, and it happens magically and effortlessly. Friendship is work, always. Some people are just less work or pay higher dividends than others. You need patience and the ability to know when a friendship costs more than it’s worth. I think we just tend to have less patience, energy, and flexibility as we get older, but some of that is a choice.
> I think too many people think friendship is what happens between people that are the same
This is so true. Just think, why is it that as children we often become friends with the kid who lives next door or across the street? Is it that we magically have the same tastes? Or is it just that we see them all the time?
> I have found that people generally understand the value of friendship and are welcoming to newcomers
I feel like there's a curve where in college people are super open to making friends until mid-late 20s where friend groups are well established/people are focused on their careers and then people are more open to making friends again in mid 30s where people lose touch with old friends and are looking to make new ones (either through kids or other shared activities).
> You just gotta show up and see the same people every week over and over.
I second that. I started dancing social Argentinian tango at about 35, first just visiting classes, then practicas, then milongas. I now have more friends from there than from my school and university years.
Also know that things outside of sports work great too, like amateur chess/photography club, local library reading groups, local hackers' club, voluntary organisations, etc.
I am saying this from experience. And will recommend.
This was true for people I know who had kids 20 years ago, but not so much today. When I became a parent, I thought I’d be meeting and hanging around with all the other parents, but so far (kid is now 12), this didn’t end up happening. Kids all hang out online now. Nobody wants to get together in person. My kid has had some friends for years, where I still have not even met the friends’ parents. In the rare event one of them wants to come over to our home to visit, the parent quietly drops the kid off at the end of our driveway and speeds away like a ninja.
Well said. I have had the exact same experience. As I have gotten older I have made more friends. More importantly, more meaningful connections that are by choice and not by circumstances.
This is obviously great advice, but most groups don't organically sprout around interests. Sports, especially, are something that I have a very difficult time imagining enjoying. And with the slow enshittification of meetup, where do you find these groups? Your local library?
I’ve found most of my new friends in my 50’s by going to little local museums that interest me, such as a small clock museum and a military history museum, and inserting myself into them by volunteering to help out.
I volunteered at a museum when I moved to a new city, thinking that I would meet people. I determined that exactly two types of people volunteer at museums: students/recent graduates that want to build a career in that field, or retired folk.
I wasn’t in a phase where I desired meeting either of those groups, so while volunteering was a positive experience, the social aspect of it was not.
I actually felt a little guilty volunteering-- the selection process was a little competitive and I didn't want somebody who wanted to get a start in their career turned away.
Not really my thing--but maybe at some point--but there are a ton of volunteer docent tasks at museums, ushering/other tasks at local theater groups, etc. Should probably do more along those lines.
> Sports, especially, are something that I have a very difficult time imagining enjoying
There is a wide range of sports :) My mom always tried to force me into team sports like football, hockey and alike, which never really was my thing. But as an adult, I enjoy things like skiing, water-sports, table-tennis and a bunch of other sports, that I see less like "sports" but more like "enjoyable activities", but also really makes it easy to meet people with similar interests :)
Local library. Recreation centers. Local board game shops. Events and activities in the community. Volunteering. Religious groups. College campuses often host groups and events from the community. Art classes. Dance classes.
Check the local newspaper as they often list events and activities.
If you don't have "interests" that is in its way a separate question, and it is one that is worth addressing on its own.
It is shockingly common, in the modern world, to have only a job and watching-TV-while-doomscrolling-exhausted.
But it is worth thinking about. Beyond planned activities, beyond hobbies: what appeals to you at all?
Another way to look at it is outwards: what things do I know how to do that could be socially valuable and need an outlet? Like, do you know how to use a 3D printer, do you still vaguely remember how to play a musical instrument from childhood, do you find gardening easy?
Go mentor a high school robotics team, or volunteer to help run events. It's 100% sports, minus the athletic dimension. I see tons of lifetime friendships being made.
> but most groups don't organically sprout around interests.
If you are only looking for people with the same niche interest, it will probably be more difficult to find local groups. But if you're open to meeting new people that are interested in social connectivity, local sports teams are the way to go. I've meet friends through co-ed sports that work in fields I would rather not come into much direct contact with: police officers, tsa, tax auditor, etc. People I never would have met otherwise (turns out they are just like other humans; who knew!) Seriously though, they don't all become best friends, but mostly social acquaintances and that works for me. I did get a couple best friends out of it some time ago.
> Sports, especially, are something that I have a very difficult time imagining enjoying.
Kickball. There are no high school/college/main pro leagues, so you avoid that one competitive team that all played on a school sports team. And get a bunch of people looking to socialize while playing a rather silly game no one is expected to excel at. To shore up that reality, join co-ed sports teams. I have witnessed games in both Mens and Womens leagues and they are much more about the competition.
With websites and social media accounts being simple to create, just search google and instagram for “<x thing you’re interested in> club/meetup/group”. Lots of small groups make one for this purpose. It’s worked for me!
Specially having same sports interests, does not help in finding people with more or less same values/ world view. I cannot really make good friends with people on the opposite side of my thinking.
There's lots of clubs that are politically aligned. Board games and Dungeons and Dragons and maker spaces tend to be progressive, certain types of volunteering lean conservative.
> And with the slow enshittification of meetup, where do you find these groups?
Meetup still works, although it is slowly enshittifying, I would agree. Taking away features that had always been there systematically so they can sell a subscription service to everyone. Ugh.
But for now you can still see lists of meetup events and descriptions and sign up to attend those events without paying.
If it weren't for Meetup I wouldn't have stumbled upon a local movies and dinner group last year that has quite a few people I really relate to and we now plan other activities outside of meetup as well. Trying out a few other new meetups next year as well that look maybe a bit promising.
Most of the things mentioned in the article result in making friends as an adult being different than making friends as a child, but not necessarily harder. I'm in my late 50s and continue to make new friends.
I think the larger problem is that many approach friendship with the wrong expectations. As Zig Ziglar said.
"If you going out trying to find a friend, friends are scarce. If you go out trying to be a friend, friends are everywhere."
>"If you going out trying to find a friend, friends are scarce. If you go out trying to be a friend, friends are everywhere."
My brain solidified late, in my late 30s, but it did eventually solidify and when it did something like a switch or circuit breaker flipped and I came to this conclusion
I'm going to pretend that I came to it independently.
I have more, closer, friends in my 40s than I did at any time in my life previously.
I don't even know how it happened, I think that I just stopped caring about any potential for embarrassment and I learned that a good conversation is equal parts statements and questions.
Some of the friends I have now, in my 50's, are due to them proactively reaching out to me to get together. Had it not been for them making the effort, our friendship, likely, would've never materialized. When meeting new people with whom I think there might be potential for friendship, I now try to be the one who reaches out and suggest meeting up.
I really committed myself to solving this for myself a few years back. It does take commitment.
A few things I’ve done that work:
1. Start a “Dad’s night” with people in my neighborhood. We picked Wednesday night from 9 - 10pm. Started out just as BYOB in my back yard. Eventually we periodically went to a local pub that was near the neighborhood.
When you have kids of a certain age, it’s inconsiderate to bail on your wife while the kids are still awake. The hard time limit keeps it easy for anybody during the work week. Doing it mid week keeps weekend plans from getting in the way.
Lots of dads were thrilled to have this. The trick is consistent scheduling even if you have some weeks with no shows. That’s why starting it in my back yard was easiest until we regularly had about 8 people showing up. Doesn’t put you out if nobody can make it. Don’t get your feelings hurt because things like this start slow.
Covid killed it, but most of those guys became a Friday lunch group instead.
2. If you can, a cheap poker night. Like $10 buy in so the point is more to hang out than to loot your neighbors coffers and it keeps it accessible for people who have never played. This probably works for most games, but poker is such a broadly played game that it’s not that intimidating. Works in all weather conditions and works well with a sporting event on TV in the background.
Again, the key is consistent scheduling.
For either of these options, make sure people know they can bring a friend if they think they’ll get along with the group.
3. Take up golf. I haven’t done this but I know enough people who have. It works. Join a country club and play regularly. They’ll pair you up with people and groups. It’s not for everybody, but works well for lots of people.
4. Join a church with adult Sunday school. Free and easy way to meet people in your community. Usually comes with family friendly activities around community service too.
5. Get involved with local tech communities and meetup groups.
I don't disagree with you on the basic premise, but I'm pretty sure that the person you're replying to is a religious adult who has their shit together, and is probably not going to a church group that meets in a van down by the river, and practices "Steveism" or whatever.
For all of my problems with religion, churches are a good way for religious people to make friends and establish a social circle. It's one of the few Third Places left in our society.
I debated replying to this but I have to ask, “religious groups” is a very broad brush. I’ve been in various churches for most of my life and I’ve only seen them try to help the most vulnerable. In my area, post Helene it was the churches organizing volunteer chain saw crews to help get trees off of houses, cars and roads just as an example.
What would make you think they prey on vulnerable people?
I made my first new friend in years simply by… asking. Struck up a conversation with a guy in line for coffee, on my way out of the cafe went up, gave him my number, said I was looking to make new friends.
The world is more like the playground than you might think. Just ask if someone wants to be friends. They probably do.
I'm 37. Any time I strike up a conversation with someone new who seems like an interesting person, I end the conversation by asking to exchange contacts. In the context I live in, that usually means scanning a WhatsApp QR code, or asking for an Instagram or Telegram ID. Then I invite them to the next suitable thing I want to do. I make 3-5 new friends a week this way. Of course, not all of them become close, reliable friends, but I'm never alone, and the ones I click most with become closer friends over time.
One thing that can help people do this is to realize that not everyone will actually become a friend. I've done similar things - only to later realize that, nah, we don't really click. And then we drift apart, and never see each other again.
And that's fine! But the friends I have made and kept have been worth it.
TBH, I thought this was a pretty empty article. It seemed to rehash things that I believe most people are aware of regarding the difficulty of making friends once you hit adulthood. Thus, I'll add one piece of advice that I didn't see mentioned in the article or the comments.
Beyond just having unstructured time together, I think I made some of my best friends when I was in a group that had a common goal, and we had to work together to achieve that goal. While the common goal actually isn't the most important factor in making friends, I think it provides the framework that makes the "unstructured" time so much more natural, easy, and regular. E.g. joining a sports team provides the framework of regular practice, but then you can make great friends getting something to eat after. Or in a community theater group, the rehearsals provides the structure, but it's all the downtime where you really get to build friendships.
I mention this because I so often here the advice of "join a group of other people with shared interests", and while that's true, I've found that is it's too "laissez faire", then the normal pressures of adult life can often get in the way, and it's harder to connect. E.g. a book club is nice, but when you get really busy it's easy to just bail and not feel as connected to the folks in the club.
I confess I largely stopped paying attention after the "as a kid, it was easy" comment.
As a kid, having playmates was easyish but having friends was tricky. As an ND intellectual multilingual round peg in a town of unilingual anti-everything square holes, I had acquaintances but no good friends until high school, one or two then, none in uni, though there were sufficient like-minded people that it mattered less, and, from then until 10 years ago, at most one or two.
In late 2014 I bought a Jeep and joined a hardcore offroad group (rocks, not mud). They are the most diverse group I've ever hung with, and I have half a dozen people I would consider close friends and rather more who would drop everything and drive 50km in a snow storm if I needed help.
I lucked out. But to say it was ever easy is misaligned with my experience.
I made lots of friends (and eventually my wife and best man at my wedding) in my early 30s by first joining a meetup group and eventually becoming the organizer for it. It was disbanded a few years ago (before Covid), but I still hang out with the 13 or so people I met in the group. The group lasted almost 8 years.
I had work friends in my 20s, but it was always difficult for me to make new friends after college. Joining a common-interest meetup group made it so much easier. I find the key is to meet weekly and in-person. If you don't do this, you just won't be able to put the time in to actually have a real friend.
It would be nice if it was as easy for adults as it is for kids. My daughter will go up to another kid and say "Do you want to be my friend?" and they will play all day together.
With the caveat that you need to be in a setting where the other “kids” are doing it full time too. If that were the case, I do think it would be easy. Interesting insight.
Children have it easy because they are made to go to school. It's simple forced proximity. Adults often had it easier in the past because people needed each other more, and that placed them together.
But advancing technology takes that away. People need each other less and less with each passing day because we are too self-sufficient with technology. AI is the final step that will make friendships very hard to form indeed.
You just need a shared interest or objective in as close to 'real life' as you can get it, and you need to dedicate time to it that you would otherwise give to TV and doom-scrolling.
Gamers make real friends. Open source enthusiasts can make real friends. Music fans can make real friends (though your local scene is considerably better for this).
It does take management and maintenance, and if you're a single person then covid lockdowns will have broken many ties; I am definitely a more insular person than I was before.
But stop wasting your time watching TV, make a plan to make your social media more focussed on local activities and less focussed on personal drama, and try to be part of something a bit bigger than yourself. Get a dog, maybe.
For me it went something like: I'm lonely > try to make friends > it's hard, but wait I already have friends > try to reconnect with old friends > for various reasons old friends don't want to/can't be friends > try to make new friends > wait I want my old friends > not going to happen > volunteering
I used to be like this! then I figured out the reason what makes making new friends hard, I became more relaxed hanging out and reaching out to new friends, now I can enjoy both new and old friends' accompany, tho I'm still working on making myself more comfortable making friends.
It feels like there's nothing of substance in this article.
My own addition to this beyond the "we need third spaces", etc. that gets repeated is that I believe where you live has a huge influence that maybe scales in a way that is not tangible to a person who hasn't experienced it. My life in NYC is wildly different than what it was back on the west coast. I struggled to make friends in Portland, Seattle, and SF. I found that those cities were not just lacking friendliness but somewhat actively hostile towards building friendships. Seattle having the "Seattle Freeze", SF being full of introverted fobs who had a disdain for anything that wasn't their own culture, and Portland being against anything that wasn't anticomformist.
By no means is NYC perfect, it is far from it, but it has allowed me to meet a lot of people who are completely open to meeting new people and making new friends. Will these be friends I have for the rest of my life? Probably not but they sure do make the time pass more easily. I do find it has a "quality" issue when it comes to friendships but I think that is somewhat also due to the sheer volume of people I am thrown. What is alarming to me about NYC is how many people who are native to this region are willing to make new friends. It almost felt that with any place that I lived on the west coast, it was almost a given that you'd never make friends with locals because once they found their little insular group then they'd never branch out of it and never make new friends. It created an overall unwelcoming environment because everyone didn't want to ever try anything new.
Anyway, just my two cents. Different cities even within the same country can yield wildly different results. I will miss the accessibility of friendship when I do inevitably move back to the bay area to start a family - but I am hoping I will be so focused on my immediate family that I will not be too bothered by the loneliness of not having as many easily accessible friendships.
Just suggesting because I don't see it here: foreign language group classes. I would say groups are pretty good for beginner level. But you are trading a bit of learning efficiency for the social aspect, arguably
This one is hard to get right. At the end of a class, I'd often be too tired to talk to them more. And it has to be a smallish, very interactive class.
But the diversity of people you find is awesome. I loved getting out of the tech bubble by meeting people who were learning the local language. Owners of kebab stores, nurses, waiters, and more.
I came to California, in part, because my family in the Midwest is a bunch of Jesus freaks - not the "love thy neighbor" kind, more like the "God hates fags" kind. So when a girlfriend (in California) invited me to her church for some volunteer work, I went prepared to hate on everyone. However, I was blown away, as they were the nicest people I'd ever met in my life. They all went out of their way to help one another, just to be helpful, not to destroy the "gay agenda" or "save the unborn" or whatever. No one preached to me, no warnings about burning in hell.
My point is that, love it or hate it, church can be a great way to meet good people. I'm still anti-religion, anti-church, although a bit less. But I can't deny the social support church can provide.
I’ve been thinking about this lately. I started going to social events at a friend’s church in around 8th grade, and regularly went to church and church events through high school. My mom came with me through much of it (dad isn’t big on religion or social events, which I get). I don’t think either of us was particularly invested in the religious part, but we both made a number of long term friends, and I had a strong sense of community and belonging that I didn’t get at school.
The church took a hard right turn, and I gave up any semblance of belief when I went to college. But as an adult with kids of my own, I do wish that I had a “third place” to take my family for community and kinship. I don’t really want to raise the kids in a religion, but I’ve occasionally considered trying to find a “light” church or something so they get the same sense of community that I had.
I wouldn't say that vision is clear. Not at all. It's constant thinking about faith, life questions, shaping values, etc. It's not easier path for sure.
Look into the Unitarian Universalist (UU) church. I'm a recently retired atheist and moved to a new city. My wife was brought up UU and they welcome all beliefs. We started attending services at a local fellowship a month ago and have been welcomed and are starting to make some friends there.
As someone who has looked into it, it's unfortunately far from actually being a universal option in practice. I understand that my situation isn't typical, but the commute to an actually-inclusive UU congregation (there are "conservative" ones) would be a significant burden for me, whereas I could easily walk to the closest church that routinely funds "missions" to Africa to spread the "Good News".
I’d be quite interested in comparing notes with you on this, I have also been very deep down this rabbit hole. Some dark, dark things happen under the guise of religion.
I think that kind of misses the point. Sure, of course plenty of atheists find meaning in life and social groups to join.
Point being, in a religious environment you don't have to have skill - the meaning in life and social groups are automatic and baked in. That's not the case for atheists so it's easier to get "left behind" if you happen to be "unskilled", as you put it.
I had a similar bad experience with religion growing up that left me very anti-organized religion. It wasn't until adulthood that I met people for whom religion appeared to be a positive developmental force on their personality. I am much more respectful of religious views in general now, even if I don't believe it myself.
Most religions really do center themselves on very useful concepts like mindfulness, gratitude, and helping others. But like anything, religions can be coopted by those with personality disorders to exercise their need for control, tribalistic exclusion, etc.
Whatever fosters a good healthy community is good, and church does play a role but as you state it’s not always positive and healthy. It’s good to know they’re not a uniform monolith and if you don’t find one you like you should keep on looking.
That depends, as the comment you replied to shows, on how they respond to that. I'm an atheist, but one of my wife's best friends is a dyed-in-the wool catholic, and we get on really well despite that fundamental difference. He has a great line in self-deprecating humour, where he talked about "going Taliban" during lent, of which he is very observant. Not all religious people - and, I would suggest, probably very few in fact - are nutters. They're just the loudest ones.
I thought so too, until I realized that if atheists see God as a deep aspect of the human mind, that evolved that way for reasons, then we don't miss much of the Judeo-Christian story. I stopped by a local church for Bible study just in order to challenge my assumptions and found that they had no problem with that formulation at all. I expected way more awkwardness and even pushed the issue, to no avail. The result was a delightful experience of people sitting around interrogating ancient texts and being attentive to each other's life challenges.
I found that the structure of the Christian congregation is equivalent to the anarchist affinity group. I realized that, unlike us, Christians build infrastructure to support their organizing, and we should probably adopt that.
I'm still the same atheist, just a churchgoing one. I don't go to mass often or ever recite the Nicene Creed, but otherwise it's been a fantastic social outlet, great intellectual company, and the organ festival is off the hook.
Friends and people to have fun with are not the same thing.
The older you get, the less you trust people because you know what you and those you grew up with have become.
You got deep insights into decades of politics, dark patterns in engineering, and fraud and lies everywhere. All that is done by people, who are either like you or not. In any case, it's hard to trust any of them, especially if you have kids and you understand how all these people turned into what they are now. That's up to 13% of the population, I estimate, who, if you are more honest than corrupting (in the worse sense), can simply be dropped after one or two conversations and evenings. Move on as quickly as possible, don't let them occupy any space whatsoever in your mind.
Radical honesty, trusting your gut and acting on it when it comes to people and most other things goes a long way and saves you decades of time, brain power, nerves and rewards you with so much peace of mind. If it's not an honest match, fuck it. There's a million other people.
But that must not necessarily matter when it's about just having fun. Just a getting a few good licks out of an evening and being human works with anyone. It's in everyone's interest to let shitty people pay for their sexual gratification, though. Their 'bad boy' or 'bad girl'-vibes are just a facade, a charade, a bad act and any intimate time with them is worth much less than the average sex toy.
I have a few board game groups I belong to. We occasionally also do things outside of board games. So, for me it was finding a common interest.
Another factor, for me, is being married. My wife has a lot of friends. They go on walks together, have regular Ladies Lunches were they try different restaurants in the area. I've become friends with some of the other husbands when we do things together as couples. Everything from movies, to holiday parties, to escape rooms, to board game nights (party games), to murder mystery dinners, etc.
> My wife has a lot of friends. They go on walks together, have regular Ladies Lunches were they try different restaurants in the area. I've become friends with some of the other husbands when we do things together as couples. Everything from movies, to holiday parties, to escape rooms, to board game nights (party games), to murder mystery dinners, etc.
The problem with latching to your wife's social network is that they might end remaining your wife's friends as opposed to your friends. Especially if you only see each other in the context of "my wife's friend". It is a very common pattern. And then if you ever break up with your wife, she is gone and so are her friends.
Learning to make friends on your own is a valuable skill.
I barely have any friends. Being a single father is incredibly isolating.
Doing group activities is the key, but finding a group that can include me and my son is very rare. Also, our neighbors are incredibly impolite. We're hoping to move homes soon, and I am hoping the change in perspective will have a good impact. So I would add neighborhood community also has an impact on socializing.
I co-parent so can relate somewhat. I do get every other week to myself - but it's really hard to be a regular when you can only go every other week (similar issues with dating). I don't really have an answer - it's something I'm still trying to figure out.
For me a huge challenge is that I grew older (college years) in an environment where people were strongly convinced that opinions and tastes can only be right or wrong. If someone liked something else than the group, they just didn't see the truth. It was exhausting and also meant that "finding friends" basically meant trying to find someone who likes and values exactly the same things as you.
I learned pretty late that you can get along very well with people who have vastly different taste and as long as your ideals are not directly contradicting, it still works.
So I guess my suggestion is: don't artificially limit your pool of potential friends by looking for the perfect match. No need to find your soul-copy. Someone with whom concersation flows is just fine.
> I learned pretty late that you can get along very well with people who have vastly different taste and as long as your ideals are not directly contradicting, it still works.
Depending on how extreme the ideals are you mention, I get along swimmingly with people who are diametrically inverted to my personal beliefs. Idgaf what they think, and idgaf what they think about what I think.
Common ground doesn’t need to be qualified by “well we agree that chess is awesome, but you’re a (political party) affiliate, so fuck you!”
If you make a little effort it gets easier once you hit 50s or 60s. People in their 30s and 40s are very busy with family and work. This changes once kids are gone and people near or have reached retirement.
Great advice if you're a dog lover. You will quickly meet dog-loving people. One stereotype is the dog owners that have dogs as a fashion item. Another stereotype is dog owners that desire a dependent.
Recently I've noticed lots of people I thin judge to be good have house plants. So there's definitely something about being able to care for dogs or plants or people. I'd love to hear other thoughts about house plant owners!
The author of the article? Doesn't sound like she is trying to make friends. Comes off as an assignment where she polled a bunch of people and added some text around their replies.
We're having another kid, but yes, I'm going to need to find a way to force some socialization. I think the comments section has it right: regularity is the most important aspect.
This is my speculation through observation, but imho friendship in its pure form is a genetic program. If you're "no longer twenty these days" (semi-quote from Bernie Taupin), you may not remember how it was but just look at any teen company in public transport or elsewhere, it just feels like a single organism. And at that age it doesn't mean whether your views (if there are any) are similar, you're just attracted. Another speculation that this mutation could be tossed several times with different outcomes, like different spans of this attraction. And keeping the strong bonds later in life from the evolution standpoint it wasn't worth it really so the best fit was to narrow it to some period best for survival of both participant (or group)
It is hard, for those that treat life as 'working and slacking'.
Join a group - any group. Attend meetings. Contribute. Make friends.
It's still that easy. But, you have to give up social media doomscrolling and movie binging. So there's that.
A better title might be - why it's hard now to get off your butt and do anything other than work and slacking. Because it is hard. But if you do it - all the same friendship avenues are still there.
> Join a group - any group. Attend meetings. Contribute. Make friends.
This is basically the "1. Do thing, 2. ???, 3. Profit!" South Park meme. If you're normal and like to drink a beer while talking about travel, TV, base politics or sportsball, sure it works.
But let's be honest, you normal people can smell when someone isn't part of their tribe, even with a good mask on.
That is my thinking too. Joining a group of 10 people, maybe with luck I make 1 friend out of it.
I’ve done it in the past, with mixed results. My father would roam through different groups, rotary, lions club, church, fathers of my friends… that resulted in a say 1% friendships, which would last from 1 to 3 years. And boy there are dangers there too! Nobody is talking about them! Was I the only one who got a manic hanging every day at my door? I had many experiences where people I didn’t want to be around would stick to me in a stalker way…
And those "manics" are excluded as well, while just showing up, trying to make friends. The solutionism exhibited in discussions like this flies in the face of reality. They devolve into self-help for the masses. Human relationships are complex, and there is no easy path to true friendship.
> The solutionism exhibited in discussions like this flies in the face of reality.
The solution I identify in my comments does not fly in the face of reality, because it is how I went from being crushingly lonely and weird in my early 30s to having the kind of friends who (just today) said "are you really doing Christmas by yourself? Fly out to <another country> and come to us, you'd be very welcome", and they absolutely mean it.
I'm still someone who lives solo and the covid lockdowns were a difficult, lonely time. But I have friends because I found myself introduced to an event on the fringes of a much bigger social scene, and I decided to turn up more and take an active part in it.
You find a thing that is bigger than yourself, whatever it is, you show interest, and you keep turning up. It's not solutionism: it's how friendship starts, for most people. You offer or accept help. You share a task that needs doing. You share an activity that is fun. You expand your personal circle to a dog, and they expand your circle to the owners of other dogs. Whatever.
Of course humans are all different, but essentially all the adults at a grown up social group, community project, activism event, regular club, dog park, have something in common: they are adults who want friendship. That may well be the only thing they have in common apart from their interest in some shared endeavour.
Skill issue. As long as you aren't an asshole, very few people actually care. And even if they do smell weirdness on you, why do you care? If you do, you're probably not actually weird as you think you are.
> But let's be honest, you normal people can smell when someone isn't part of their tribe, even with a good mask on.
I am a long way from normal and it worked for me. People genuinely thought I was confident and outgoing simply for turning up and chatting, and eventually it began to be a lot more true. Even if I had to leave earlier than most to find some quiet.
Any shared activity that has enough participants has a role for people like us -- helping set up/tear down, organising, making coffees and snacks (the kitchen is an easy place to be), taking photographs, shuttling messages between organisers. Any shared activity has little bubbles of social grouping, fun and friendship around these functional parts. At a music thing: sound engineers, merch tents, collecting donations on the door -- lots of little bubbles of odd people finding their own speed.
As long as you take time to relax and enjoy it as well -- I find this part difficult -- then there is a life for you. For me, I was a photographer, I helped with the web and email side, I helped with AV, whatever. I became indispensable. And then I found my people around the edges of it. I struggle again now, post-lockdown-fragmentation and a bout of depression, so I stepped back from active involvement in the same way, but I know my people are out there and they still value me just for turning up.
Try not to assume there are "normal people" who want to lock you out. It's cynical, a little rude frankly. It is also a form of fundamental attribution error. Any large social functioning/gathering of adults is a gathering of people who have the same need for adult friendship and connection as you; many of them are lonely at other times. Why else would it even be happening?
Side note: as true as the "sportsball" clichés might be, stop thinking that. Never, ever, ever say it out loud.
If it's not for you (it isn't for me), so what? Never murder an enthusiasm. It's rude.
I don't think that's exactly what they were saying. I read it more like "people who divide life into work-that-you-should-pour-your-energy-into and recovery-where-you-try-not-to-spend-energy", and that maybe we should pour less of our energy into work and use that energy for socialising (which can result in an overall net energy gain).
You have more generous eyes than my best, but saying things like, get off your butt, stop binging, and its that easy, is pretty analogous to common discourse where the blame is placed on motivation alone.
There are obviously some adults who have severe limitations on their ability to socialise and nobody is implying they are lazy.
But a wider social scene I have been part of has people with evident learning difficulties, people with obvious neurodivergence, people with physical disabilities.
If you show up and show interest in sharing a common goal with a large enough circle of people, then those people will find you a way to participate at your own speed.
If you have a way to show up for social activities, or assistance to show up, you could show up, you have a desire to show up, and you don't show up... some of that really is laziness at worst and avoidance at best.
The biggest issue I have in making & keeping friends is that I'm constantly haunted by my backlog and the fact that I'm time-poor due to having a wife, three children, and a home to maintain.
Do I take three hours today to talk to some strangers or do I spend that time fixing my staircase or remediating the mold issue in my upstairs bathroom or do I finally build that STEM kit my 10 year old has been asking me to do with him for the past few weeks?
>In school, or college, it was easier to be in proximity to other people which is just not possible as an adult.
I think it is more that you made friends with people that already lived near you (ie the kids going to your school). As adults, the only people that match a similar profile are your work colleagues but adults tend be more closed off to making friends. In some cultures, it is still easy but north european cultures seem to make it so that when you reach some age you close off to new people.
> I honestly think the majority of the difficulty is that we live so far from one another.
This sound correct for some people, but I'm not sure if it's the majority.
Right now I live in a town with ~20,000 people, feels like I cannot go outside without people around me and there are constant regular events being done.
I grew up on a island with ~700 people, and even there you were not really alone unless you were out in the forest. Even that place regularly had events organized by people.
Besides, I'm guessing most people in the world live in or close to metropolitan areas, and there certainly there isn't any problem of "live so far from one another", but maybe the opposite problem.
Yes and you aren't necessarily going to be friends with all of those people around you. The challenge is not being near just anyone but rather being near a group of people with significant overlap in values and interests. I live in one of the highest density cities in the US but I still have very few friends who live within a twenty minute walk and I frequently have to commute an hour each way to social gatherings.
> The challenge is not being near just anyone but rather being near a group of people with significant overlap in values and interests
Maybe I'm exceptionally flexible, but I don't see those as being a requirement for finding friends. Growing up on the island with an interest for programming there was like two other people on the island who even knew what programming was, and were into computers.
So most of my friends of that time I didn't really have anything in common with except we lived on this island with our parents, and we liked the same types of jokes. But generally our world-view was very different even back then, didn't seem to have stopped us.
I notice that as we grow older patience in growing a friendship is less, usually at at adult change we look for a perfect person or someone with way less difference in tastes.
I would say maybe not patience, but openness maybe? I have a hard time being around with people, that say, show some trait of antisemitism, or discrimination. I grew intolerant to that (and many other things) that 20 years ago I would just ignore.
I made good friends when I was teenager, but once I started working I made a bunch more. Then once I had kids, I made a bunch more, but I share a lot more with the ones from work/school, however the new ones I do share kids, which is an enormous part of my life.
The connection with work/school friends is a lot stronger though.
I don't find making friends that hard, surprisingly, given I'm an introvert.
Never made friends easier than in my 40s. I am late 40s now and made a really good friend only last year. I guess the 'secret' is just to talk to anyone at any time: I strike up conversations in the supermarket, when having a coffee etc; I always did. Often ends up having lunch or dinner and goes from there, or not.
maybe this is a projection, but it always seems like the people struggling to make new friends also tend to never put themselves in the bare minimum situation to be able to make said friends. i personally rarely go outside outside of anything related to work. maybe for others it is the same?
It's not a projection. I think it's a core truth you've discovered.
You need to find a thing that is bigger than yourself to be a part of. And then show up and be willing to pitch in.
Other adults who know that adult friendship is important will be there.
The rest sorts itself out pretty fast, because almost everyone enjoys the company of someone who is willing to put themselves out there, even a shy, awkward person.
There are of course people who can't "show up" so easily -- people with limited mobility, people who are physically severely isolated. But the internet does offer some spaces where those people can have a lot of what face-to-face friendship offers. Again you just have to find a shared activity and show up.
“I have a hard time making friends” may be eventually interpreted as “I have a hard time putting me in situations to be able to make friends” just 2 sides of the same coin, isn’t it?
Volunteer. Find an organization that has a good mix of cause you believe in and an activity you enjoy spending your time on. For me, I built emergency housing for people in extreme poverty, I met other amazing volunteers and we'd hang out often outside the social work.
Only the most profound reason for doing so will create a multigenerational community. But there are smaller shorter lasting communities you can string together if you would like.
I think for a lot of people it’s hard precisely for that reason - it’s a very social time of year for most which increases the feeling of loneliness for those who maybe don’t know a lot of people or don’t have family or friends they can visit for whatever reason.
I couldn't understand why you were talking about this, I actually thought your account was hacked, but I see now all the photos in the article are provided by them. Clicked through and spent some time there, an interesting community, it seems like people's random "decent enough" photos, kinda a good idea imo. If I want random stock these days I typically use AI, but this would save me having to think up a prompt and then do 15 minutes of prompt engineering. I like it!
I have an idea for an organization for getting building close connections among men:
The organization would connect men together and then those men with “chores” they could do within their neighborhood. Yeah, kind of like a free Task Rabbit.
But the idea is that the men go out on a mission together to help random people in their community, whether that’s helping someone move some furniture around, or hang some pictures, or maybe paint a bedroom, or pick up some food for someone that’s sick. The guys need an excuse to hang out together, but they’re helping people in the process. And maybe they can go grab a drink or lunch when they’re done. They get a sense of purpose and something to feel good about, as well as a companion for the day’s little journey.
I imagine people will read this and think this sounds idiotic, and that’s fine, but if you might want to explore this idea with me a little more, my email is in my profile.
That may be the case, but I can't personally confirm it.
On the other hand, I have never felt a particular need.
There were some or not.
They come and they go.
It probably also depends on what you want to understand by the term friend.
Just found a great approach to making friends - it's always been a struggle for me, so sharing this out in case it helps someone.
Language Exchanges.
Many cities have a regular (Language)/English meetup. Spanish/English, Italian/English, etc. You might have to search a bit, but check Meet-up.com
Basically, you go to a bar/cafe, there are tables with flags like "Basic English", "Advanced Spanish". You sit down, introduce yourself, and chit chat! Since I am a native english speaker, I usually start by sitting with English Basic, so I can help people really in need :) then I go find Spanish basic, and will later move go a higher level table when my brain is warmed up.
What's great is that (1) everyone wants to learn another language, (2) travel is fun to talk about, (3) This format "fixes the glitch" about going to a bar/cafe solo, and finding it socially challenging to approach new people - having lots of conversations here is the point!
The demographic is diverse! Locals, travelers, young & old, a great mix of girls and guys.
I'll share my past 2 month journey - because it's actually shocking to me to go from 2'ish years of loneliness-vibes, to within a couple months - meeting some amazing people and getting into a social groove.
Language exchange visit #1: Met lots of interesting people. Later the event had a club/dance vibe, ended up dancing with some of the new people I met. That was cool! Since this was in another city and I was traveling, I wasn't able to follow up and hang with the new people I met.
Language exchange visit #2: Found on Meet-up. At a loud bar, hard to converse. A regular there told me about another weekly language meetup, in a nearby area. Basically, its a latin dance school which hosts 3 languages exchanges a week.
Language exchange visit #3:
I found the language learning part great (well structured, rotate tables each 5-10 minutes), the dancing was frustrating. Couldn't understand the dance instructions, felt lost and clumsy in the group setting, I left discouraged a few times - and did't want to go back. Bummed.
Met a neighbor of mine, told her about the recent experience. She told me about another regular language exchange, in a farther part of town - and suggested I go.
Language exchange visit #4: Great meet up - calm coffee shop / wine bar vibe. I met several people, exchanged contacts. One guy mentioned he's hosting an upcoming holiday party and invited me. I went to it, and it was fun! Some other people from the language exchange were there, so I had a couple of people to talk with at the party. "See you at the language exchange?" - "I'll be there!"
Language exchange visit #5. Returned to the previous bar/cafe, greeted by familiar faces (several people remembered my name). I've been trying to get group sports going - and there are padel courts near me (a game similar to pickleball, squash, tennis). The guy partner from a nice couple I met expressed interest in playing padel - so I thought it would be a good way to expand the friendship vibes, and lean into social / fitness / fun activity, rather than "let's get a drink"
Me and the guy booked a padel court, and had a ton of fun playing. Near the end of the game, he mentioned - Man, we should do this weekly!
The following week, we scheduled another padel session. My new padel buddy asked if he could invite a few friends to join us play (with padel, you can do 1v1 or 2v2 people). Sure!
That padel game was so much fun! 4 dudes on a court, with no ideas the rules of the game, just having a blast keeping the ball going back and forth. Felt like teenagers again!
While taking break between games, I got an invite to a small-gathering holiday dinner party. I had been planning to have a solo night with the dogs, but wanted to actually spend time with good people too. The holiday party was last night, and tons of fun!
Work-wise, got an immediate benefit.
At the padel game, when doing the "what do you do for work" convo, I mentioned I'm a software developer / entrepreneur, and help people build their dream thing. One of the guys asked if we could meet up for coffee and talk through his business idea, which is happening this weekend...
Since I'm on entrepreneur mode - and that's been challenging - this was validation that the group sports / work pathway seems pretty good. Healthy active people with good ideas / important problems - hoping it will lead to some great clients/projects/opportunities.
I hope this inspires someone to give language exchange meet-ups a try, and also to lean into fun social group sports.
Making connections with people you're around frequently is easy. The problem is that adult life doesn't throw you into those situations post-college outside of work.
Now it's on you. Find a group. Sports are the easiest. You will absolutely make strong, long lasting friendships if you play sports. It doesn't matter if you're athletic or talented.
You just gotta show up and see the same people every week over and over. If you're a reasonably well adjusted person (and even that sometimes doesn't matter) you will make friends.
Again, making connections and friends is easy. Being around the same people regularly is difficult. Solve that problem and the friendships will come with little effort.
I have found that people generally understand the value of friendship and are welcoming to newcomers. It's been a very refreshing surprise as I've gotten older.
Get out there!